A strange encounter

I had another strange encounter. While I recognize the theme of this dream, this subject is not something that I would normally think about. The reason is, I am mostly a sceptic by nature, and wouldn’t consider this to have any specific meaning. I know this may sound contradictive, as I’m still taking part here on this blog. I will just leave this little dream story here for you, and you can interpret it as you want.

Me and someone else (the setting suggests it may be dreamwalker444) were in a snowy landscape, it was calm and quiet, and very open. It felt like somewhere far away, like the far end of Russia. We were next to a gully that formed a natural barrier along one side of the area. We had somehow been captured by lizard men in military uniforms. They looked like humans except for the head which had a “brutal” appearance. Some of the lizard men present turned out to be prisoners as well. The capturers had decided to arrange a combat tournament to have the prisoners fight. It was unclear what the purpose of this was (if any) apart from some fun for the spectators.

Suddenly a lizard man dressed in a fur coat with the fur turned inwards, showed up. He had a personal style and individuality over him that the others didn’t have. He seemed to have a bit of an “amused” facial expression, but only superficially, as if he had put it on to tease someone. It now became clear to me that all emotions felt by the group, was somehow shared collectively, as if they were all connected spiritually. Me and the other human felt this too. When the new lizard man appeared, there was the general feeling of someone who comes to “crash the party”, and the newcomer knew that this was the case. That was the reason for his timidly smug expression, he looked like a bully finding a target, and the entire group felt this. They were all in a state of hopeless, whiny despair, even if they didn’t say anything.

The newcomer with the coat walked up to a lizard man who seemed like a leader, and said loudly, “I’ll show you, half breed! Give me that!” The leader turned over his battle axe. This was the only actual weapon the entire group possessed. The leader was flinching miserable. Someone in the group said: “You know the rule of the tribals is the law here. He’s a full breed.”

The newcomer resolutely took the axe from the leader, and with one swing cut off his head, as if it was an everyday thing. Then he turned to the group. It was now a collective feeling that we had been captured by this lone lizard man. The others titled him “Mr. Count” and they all felt a deep respect and awe for him. But it was at the same time something that they didn’t want, and they were all miserable, as if a great disaster had struck them and ruined their fun. Mr. Count was very well aware of this and had the attitude of someone who is going to take full advantage of his position.

He walked up to me and the other human and then told a lizard man standing next to us: “We need to set some boundaries”. He then had them draw a line in the snow, and we had to step on the inside of the line. This line was now no easier to cross than a high fence with electric barbed wire. It was as if the connection between the lizard men made them slaves to the general emotion of the group, and despite them hating it, they were not going to fight Mr. Count, because of his pure heritage. It was impossible, and that made his words more powerful than any physical fence.

Mr. Count now shared cigarettes with me, the other human, and a lizard man who was considered having better heritage than the rest of the group. In reality he didn’t have that, but Mr. Count had decided so, so everyone had to treat him this way. The whole point of this was to exert power over the group and to put them down, because Mr. Count knew that they had to think in the same way as him. So he had intentionally picked a weaker individual to be second in command, just to make the rest of the group feel powerless. This indeed made the group feel even more miserable and whiny, and Mr. Count thought this was amusing. In an acted way, of course. He had this attitude, that he only did this because he could, in reality he didn’t care at all. He was just taking a morning walk and stumbled upon something mildly amusing that he could play with for a while, and everyone knew it.

I asked Mr. Count what was going to happen, and he replied in a friendly manner: “We are going to set you free, you will get a lot of fresh air”. It wasn’t clear if he was serious or sarcastic. His mental images sent out said something about putting the lot of the lizard men in a camp and using them as slaves. But the feeling when he said this was very friendly, and I felt as if the double meaning had been placed there just to mess with everyone.

I then woke up, and the feeling of calm friendliness remained with me. I had for the past few days felt frustrated and angry over nothing in particular, but after this dream that negative feeling was gone.


33 comments on “A strange encounter

  1. I had a dream that was from a lifetime many, many thousands of years ago. I had the dream about 3 years ago. I did not post it on my blog but may be helpful here. In the dream, I was the brother to Laura, who runs the Multidimensional ocean blog. I was around 10 years old in the dream, and she was around 12 or 13. She was dressed in white and looked a bit like Princess Leia.

    In the dream she and I were “royalty” and also had similar powers to the “Jedi” from Star Wars. I don’t think this was known by our opponents. It was at the beginning of what is known as the “Terran Wars” with the reptilians. We were on a large architectural platform, and were trying to escape after our palace had been invaded. We were with several soldiers, and had just landed on the platform for some reason. Just as we were landing, a contingent of 5 reptilians also landed on the platform. They were fierce warriors and were expecting to overpower us.

    Just as they landed, Laura used some karate moves on them and kicked the strongest one right in the chest, overpowering him – they were surprised that such a small, frail-looking human could do such a thing, and this was the ultimate insult to them. Then she kicked another one and knocked him off the platform, falling to his death. The other lizards with them backed off. Several other lizard men were arriving as reinforcements and Laura told me to escape. I think they started to get into a fire fight with laser weapons with the soldiers. I asked her if I’d ever see her again, and she said not now, but we should try to meet in other lifetimes if we can.

    After that I flew off in an “air car” with some of the guards, to leave my sister and her soldiers to deal with the lizard warriors.

    That was the end of the dream.

    In this lifetime, I have met her online, and she remembers (and has had other dreams) of her time as a princess on Terra. I was able to identify her by a younger photo she shared of herself. It was the same girl from my dream.

    Hi Nils, I'm happy to know a fellow skeptic. 🙂

  2. Thank you for sharing this!
    A lot of what you bring up here is new to me, with implications beyond my “world of concepts”. I see this a lot in this area of the internet so I’ll just let that be, even if I don’t fully understand where this way of doing things come from.

    Someone I had contact with before used to always speak in riddles and could never reply directly to any questions of what he was really talking about. At the time it got me very frustrated and I stopped talking to him. Getting bits of useless information isn’t my thing. But now things are somehow being tied up in a more comprehensible way. Ironically this is because of communication from non-physical or spiritual entities, who have been better at explaining things to me than humans right in front of me. As silly as this may sound, I’ve always had a definite belief in spirits or ghosts. I ended up there from logical reasons and some things that happened when I was a kid.

    I think it comes down to the difference between Geeks and Nerds, as stated in an online wiki. Geek are people with an interest who speak in jargon and doesn’t bother to, or are unable to, explain this interest to outsiders. Nerds are people with similar interests and lingo, but with the difference that they like to talk about it with outsiders, and know how to explain it in laymans wording.

    Most in this part of the internet seems to fall in the geek category, while I’m a nerd…

  3. To go back to the dream.. It was my impression that this was a “current event” dream and not relating to past lives. The things in the dream you shared supposedly happened a long time ago, and I’m pretty sure (there we have the contradiction again) I haven’t been “here” for so long. I’ve seen some pictures that I recognized the theme and meaning of, that were made in China some 1500 years ago. There is a sort of hidden meaning in them, that makes me almost 100% sure those were made by me in a previous lifetime. Looking back, I feel like there is nothing beyond that point.

    I had another very clear (and short) dream, in which I was a woman walking in a forest lanscape. There where many small lakes and all was wild. But something was wrong. It should be an eternal summer world, but it had gotten cold, and the colors were changing. Other people there had put on winter clothing of the modern, western kind, and they didn’t even see that this was wrong. I grabbed a tree branch, climbed out over the water, and turned back at two persons on the land. I waved at them and then let go of the branch.

    I fell into the water and the light at the surface disappeared over my head further and further away. I fell deeper into the dark and soft water and it felt like the water was now somehow closer to my mood. I no longer felt a distortion from the “wrong” season that I had felt before. I then dropped throught the bottom mud of the water and suddenly woke up in my bed.

    It was very clear and very logical. There is nothing more to say of why I am here. I need to find the reason the summer ended and fix it, then I will go back.

  4. Very glad to hear you feel this is productive, Nils. I agree, all those “insider” terms can be just ridiculous. It’s an unfortunate symptom of separation when people do this to protect their “intellectual property” from a collective conscious perspective. My feeling is that if all is from “source” then it’s not really “ours” to begin with. If I can explain things further please let me know, and feel free to send me an email if you wish. I can’t guarantee that things will always be clear to me either – but I’ll try to explain things as honestly as I can from my perspective. Maybe you can help my understanding of how everything fits together.

    Time is tricky – there is our human point of reference, and we try to make things “fit” according to other points of reference in time. Another perspective is that they only happen “now”. This is what it feels like in the dream. This is where I have to confess that I get a bit confused on “when” something happens. If time is mass times acceleration, we can’t really use it to define human events.

    There is also the question of which timeline it’s happening in – some things are happening “now” but in another timeline. Other things happen “now” in the dream but will take some time to catch up to in this timeline.

    To take it a step further… in the book “Thiaoouba Prophecy” it suggests a group of human individuals here on earth are connected to a single individual on planet Thiaoouba in the distant future. So the memories of those individuals are shared with this single being, and that being is no longer having his / her memory wiped, having full consciousness of past lives. I appreciate having a more-or-less linear memory of past lives. More than that would just be too confusing, and possibly way too embarrassing. 🙂

    I’m not sure how I feel about this book because the last part of it has some questionable information – I won’t get into that here. But this connection sort of explains what is meant by a “soul” family. They are aware they are all connected through this single being way in the future. Time is indeed relative!

  5. As a reply to your time question, you can read this blog post: https://succubuscollective.wordpress.com/2015/07/21/the-outback/

    I’m a bit hesitant to link this here, because I feel like this will somehow make a connection between two places, and the effect can’t be predicted. But maybe, if I just leave this link here…

    This is a blog I run for a rather limited audience. The messages are mostly just written down from information given to me.

    This blog is intended as a kind of rendevouz point for a certain thing originating in another place of the web, with a group of very loosely connected people. I know it has a bit of the same unpenetrable style as I just criticized, but there is a reason – it’s meant as something to link to people when they ask certain questions. If they don’t ask, they don’t need to read it.

    It can be called something like a very long contingency plan running in the background.

  6. On the contrary it was very easy to read. I enjoy hearing about other enties / spirits / energy – great stuff. I’m not sure about the dualistic lens that they’re (succubus) often seen through; the law of diversity applies to all forms of energy. When it comes right down to it, in physical form they have to put on pants like everyone else. 🙂 And they sound similar to Dakini… On the human side, the difference to good pit bull owners vs bad pit bull owners. The dog reflects the owner.

    I know that the reptillian race actually split along lines similar to the romulans and vulcans. This is not a story you’ll hear but it’s what I’ve learned from observation. We tend to get one side of the story because this is a negative- leaning world, unfortunately.

  7. Sorry that might have come across as a bit judge-mental… maybe a better way of saying it is that I feel all energy is intelligent. So as humans in our limited capacity I feel we need to treat that energy, in whatever form it takes, as we ourselves wish to be treated. There are a lot of similarities between the idea of the succubus and “spirit helpers”. These might even be the same kind of “energy” seen from different angles. Some of them may seem “demonic”… but as some of those sites suggest, this is an “initial impression”. The bottom line is that we need to remember to respect that energy. (I realize this doesn’t need to be said to a fellow “spirit scientist”…)

    Another observation is that whether or not someone calls themselves a satanist, we’re all basically on the same path. At some point the lessons of religion no longer serves, but the lessons we learned from it are also part of who we are.

  8. I was actually myself surprised that so many people who blog about this subject choose to call themselves satanists or wicca. It’s really just an inversion of christianity. If someone really is against christianity, why accept it’s fundamental concepts of God and Satan as two opposites?

    I did not personally relate succubus with anything of the kind until I started reading other wordpress blogs. The myth – which makes a lot of sense from a symbolic perspective – has to do with the creation of Adam and Eve and explains succubus as the daughters of Adam’s first wife Lilith. She refused to stay below Adam and demanded the opposite. This has been interpreted in a literal way which leads wrong, in my opinion. From what I’ve seen the story is about the conflict between Patriarchy – Matriarchy. It also has some very real implications when looking at how energy and matter functions. (This is something that could be added on that schematic posted here before)

  9. But after making that stance clear, I still have to point out that my view is: succubus are demons. There is no point in denying that fact. The conceptual problem people have when someone brings this up is once again from christianity or other religions where demon means evil and degenerated. This is too narrow. It’s only evil if it’s done by a good person. True demons are cruel by nature so this is not wrong for them. They still have morality and ethics, and that includes looking down on bad behaviour. Mainstream people don’t understand this.

    You can use this as a thought experiment. How would you do if you had to be “cruel and fair” as a code of conduct? You would have to aim the cruelty against what you consider criminal acts, and aiming wrong (attacking innocents) would be immoral. If you find nothing wrong and everyone behaves, the cruelty (or evil) would be inactive and not manifest. The part that is considered bad in a demon would be like a weapon put back in it’s holster. Some people think succubus must be low in morality if they are demons. From my experiences they are more strict than even christian monasteries today, they don’t deviate at all. The difference is that they maintain order by punishments only, while christians use forgiveness. The end result is very similar, only the means differ.

  10. This conceptual confusion is maybe one aspect of the uncertainty I felt about putting that link here.

    Another thing that I was unsure about, was how “they” would react. There seems to be something very real on the spiritual side, which corresponds to the internet. This site has a corresponding set of dimensions. The dimensions my blog respresents is a surface area meant to create a front for their world to the human world. When I put that link there (because I’m the owner of my blog, and have been given permission by you to post here) this created a physically existing bridge over there. It’s just this little link, but it carries all this meaning in the act. I could sense them storming across last night in large numbers to investigate what “this new place” is. The image I get is of them putting on some kind of magnifying glasses to examine things in detail. I don’t know what that is, maybe it’s some kind of “microscope ability” they have.

    They also dragged me along to one of the ships last night. I had a dream with all of the dreamflight characteristics, except it was extremely crowded, and everyone walked along a pathway at something like an art excibit. There were paintings, metal work, knitwares and ceramics on display. At the entrance was a desk and two people who seemed like ship staff gave out tickets. I understand that it had to be this way, succubus are very capitalistic and don’t really understand “free” so it’s just logical that there were tickets sold at price “0” to enter the ship. It goes along with what they understand.

    They were still at it this morning, I could sense it, so I asked them to not go all at once and leave some space for other people. They didn’t think this was strange at all and just stopped rushing.

    Maybe I should also point out here that the Collective, as I call them, are extremely numerous. They are very old and indestructible. They are not very intelligent, but their numbers in combination with organizational skills, make it possible for them to solve anything with “trial and error”. They won’t ruin anything that works, but my main concern in putting that link there was the “unleashing” of this huge force that they really are. They are a great ally, so maybe this is what I was supposed to do, I just hope noone gets upset and overreacts in some negative way.

  11. I was going to recommend Good Omens but now I see Tiffany Aching’s Nac Mac Feegle is more appropriate. Both from Terry Pratchett. These guys you know are also well known by the Celts under another name, if I’m not mistaken. I’ve met their kind before.

    Your (their) post on taking form was really interesting – ties in nicely with the idea that there are some incarnate humans whose souls haven’t experienced human-ness previously. I was aware of this concept but wasn’t sure how it translated to experience. Dolores Cannon’s description of it was helpful.

    They really do have a funny curiosity don’t they? I hope they don’t mind elves too much…

  12. I have read both of those books by Terry Pratchett 🙂 but in translation, so for the incarnated humans thing, I’m not sure ..? The way this is done is by copying another person’s surface nervous system and use that as you would use a robot/computer. It’s extremely simple. A standard energetic message is sent to the fake body’s nervous system by the spirit and this translates into a full human behaviour.

    For a shorter visit they pick some useful things from different people to create a functional character, then they just enter that form. Everything will be completely automatic. The only way to see it’s not a normal human is that they usually behave a bit funny or seem too young if they took the form of an old person. If they used the form of a teen noone will be able to tell.

    They don’t understand human conventions very well so there can be misunderstandings about practical things. Like when talking about cooking, they may not understand the difference between a ceramic pot and a steel kettle.

    • It came through in a similar way to the Aurora. It’s a big chunk of energy screaming at me for definition. I get an idea of what it looks like if I were really there, and look for images of such a space on the web. Something might really resonate and the name usually comes through too. Sometimes I enlist the help of others if it’s at all foggy – this one was very clear. This also has some important connections to Tauno, so everything fit together nicely. I have a sense that most of them are already there – it’s less about manifestation and more about discovery.

  13. One last comment (I hope, this is getting long…). The strong resistance to succubus even as a concept, may have to do with that there seems to be a lot of other spirits who really hate them. The reason is like I described above, a true demon is “forced” to attack anything immoral. If (s)he does’t attack immoral things, it would mean they are attacking good things. This is because of their nature of being natural bullies with morality. They don’t have the choice to be peaceful as long as there is something to attack.

    This is of course a real pain for evil spirits who are constantly “pestered by” succubus. If you don’t have the protection of a positive being, a succubus is really the best occult bodyguard you can have, as they will drive away anything else from your presence.

    The only problem that can occur is if you are an evil person, then you will have to fear them. This can also be one reason why some people are so eager to spread negative messages about them. Not all religious people are good people, and they would just hate having demons exposing their wrongdoings. Of course there are different kinds of succubus and some are not as good as others, but the fact remains, they only cause trouble for bad people. Any ghost bothering good people can’t really be described with this label, doing so is the work of the same evil spirits who would be removed by them.

    • As an armchair Captain James T Kirk I could talk about these guys all day… I appreciate the time you’ve taken to carefully explain what they are. A nice greeting from them too, so a good day all around. 🙂

  14. One more question – do you have a sense of how long it takes them to do what they do best? The reason I ask is that there are links to the “spiritual side” of the National Mall in DC. Actually there’s a few possible paths there. These weren’t placed there intentionally for them, but I couldn’t help notice the “timing”. Both the Ceilidh and Aeterna are helping as transit points. 2-3 weeks maybe?

    • There is yet another aspect… remember the post about the time lines, “the outback” ? They don’t think like us. It’s likely they would just say: but the problems will be gone in 100 000 years if you just wait. You don’ t have to do anything at all.

      They don’t think from the perspective of watching time from day to day and waiting for something painfully. If they don’t like something they go home and sleep or go to another time period that’s more interesting.

  15. I’m not entirely sure what your question is (what’s the deal with the national mall? If you are talking about the current US leadership, this is nothing to be concerned about. I won’t go into details but this is all under control, the portal2012 crew are doing their thing there).
    I’ll give a general reply. The issue here is that they do things because they want to, or because someone pays them to. If they want to do something it’s because the effort pays off. From another perspective, if you want them to do something, you need to provide the energy source. Say you want to clean up evil spirits in an area, but there is no natural way to support this within the area itself. Then it will cost just as much as an entire army. You can still do it, if you find a way to fund them, but it will cost you. Alternatively you can point at an energy source that will become available by the effort, they do understand the idea of making investments for profit. But remember they have done this for millions of years. They don’t fall in economic traps or “bubbles”, they did all mistakes before and learned from it. If your suggestion is good enough, they are already checking out those links right now. They do understand how to read things online from over there.

    • Actually it seems like some are looking at it, but there’s not much over there. They’re just walking in the park. The surrounding areas are very low in energy, it’s like a complete wasteland, I don’t think they can cross there. It’s been overused for a long time. Maybe it could be called “low in vibration” with another vocabulary, it’s like a post-nuclear war zone, nothing lives there. They can stay in the park because the trees and grass create an environment.

      • I figured all that dark energy and crazy politicians would be like candy to them, but I see your point. 🙂 It’s interesting that how you describe it is exactly how I feel about it. It’s a wasteland of cement buildings and not much else. Not even anything for people to do, really. Just spend your money and go home. These are not “people friendly” spaces, and not well planned out. Inside and down below there are some interesting spaces – they might enjoy those for awhile. Reminded me of M.C. Escher drawings. Kind of fun to poke around down there but also easy to get lost.

  16. Not sure if you saw the video I posted with Dolores Cannon talking about “the shadow people”. What you describe sounds a lot like this concept, but from an “astral realm” perspective. I can give you a link to that if you’d like to see it. The idea being (from her research) is that in our “3D” holographic realm, we create “people” who take the role of “crowd person number 35”. We can fill up a whole stadium with these shadow people. They are not “real” – they only exist as long as we need them to exist. In incarnate form, they also behave in a similar way to what you described (I’m not sure how she knows this).

    There are “real” people – you and I are “real” and exist “here” past the requirement for a temporary existence.

    So these beings you refer to as “succubus” may have a similar role to the shadow people. They are basically the “shadow people”, except you’re giving them form beyond what you’d normally require of them. Perhaps this is a separate category similar to spirit helpers. Spirit helpers are fragments of your own personality, technically speaking, that exist in the astral realm (whatever that is).

    So the succubus could be a middle ground between the two. Yes of course they would incarnate according to the person’s thoughts who manifest them. It’s what we do on a daily basis (assuming Dolores is correct). She also describes “new” real people (first incarnation), and I think we’re seeing the full cycle of what she’s describing. You’ve just fleshed it out a little… if you’ll pardon the pun.

  17. There seems to be a lot of confusion about concepts here. While I understand the idea and can explain it, “shadow people” already refers to another phenomenon…. see here: http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/15824030/#15824030 (this is an archived discussion so don’t bother replying).

    What you talk about sounds like something that can happen because of a time line issue. It goes this way: there are not actually as many humans as it seems. You interact with a small number of people and the rest of them are not possible for you to know. Because your actions are predetermined by your personality and environment, each person only needs a narrow corridor of space/time to live their life. This is called a time line. Anything outside of this line is just a 3D movie set. Not an actual set, but similar. After a time line finishes, to the end of the universe, the person either finished his journey and is enlightened, or he will have to do another round. If he is done he will wait there. If not, he will go back to the beginning of the universe, or to a certain historical period, but in a parallell time line. This line will not cross the line that was already done, and those things can not be changed. The people you here label “shadow people” would be the images of people in a time line that is not currently active. They are images of people in a different time line. You can interact with them, but not change their actions if that time line already finished. If it didn’t play yet, you can change it a bit.

    • I just realized the link I provided was full of “rage arguments” between 2 – 3 individuals.. there is some good information in there if you just ignore that part. I’m just so used to people behaving badly online I just scroll past it and ignore it without thinking.

      Also I’m sorry if I my tone was a bit “short” in my last 2 comments here, maybe I fell back into this from too many discussions where someone is trying to ruin it by bringing up the same old things over and over…

      Which, like I pointed out… makes an interesting point, since you brought up some things that – argument wise – plays the same role in trying to suppress a certain direction of thought.

      It feels like some collective mental resistance against anything new that most people fall back on, unless they have personal experiences that say otherwise. What causes this? Some kind of “archetype”?

  18. As for what you wrote about succubus being manifested images, this is a discussion that keeps being brought up in one form or another. Seeing as you did that too, without prior knowledge of this (you explained it differently and didn’t use the standard vocabulary) I’m beginning to think there is something else behind this….

    Succubus are real spirits. They are not something made up. What you are talking about goes by a different term, and it’s a completely different thing. I won’t go into it because that is an infected discussion not suitable for this blog. I don’t want those words indexed here on web searches… it may bring the trouble here as well.

    I understand the idea is tempting – what you see was created by your mind – but this is a kind of circle thinking that traps people and causes conflicts between believers and sceptics. Remember I’m the latter but I still claim they are real, simply because of my experiences with them. While I write this, it can always be explained as “my own thinking” if this view is used. Then the question is how powerful my mind is to be able to do all this…? Seems a person would then be like a God who can create humans… and this is a dangerous path of thought. Consider what happens the moment you think you did it, when in reality it was done by an external being. You become entitled to things you do not deserve and you will be delusional and end up controlled by this being. It can bring you down at any moment and you would have to pay it to keep your illusion of power.

    Just accept that you didn’t create anything, you just asked someone to do it for you and it was done, for a price. If you think you did it, there would be no cost, so then you will be massively indebted to this being if you keep doing this. Compare it to using a credit card and thinking that it is your own money. It works well until one month later when then first bill arrives in your mail.

  19. Thanks Nils, this is very helpful to my understanding. I will avoid the rage arguments. 😀

    This is an aside to our conversation, but actually I do remember a point in my own timeline when I created life forms with software (this is slightly different to what you’re talking about). For me it’s really hard to know if this is a point in my past or in my future (I think it was “distant past”). It is a lot like a video game, and you run the simulation, for example between prey and predator, with the goal of understanding how they will get along in “3D”. It blew me away when I saw this… I had no idea such a thing was possible! But I think we are not so far away from this in our own timeline. They are already 3-d printing body parts, for people who need them.

    What you bring up about the mind-god creation thing is exactly what I’ve been wrestling with. Maybe the underlying intent is to enforce the idea of a “Matrix” to catch us in our own flawed thinking, eh? 😉 The “debt” idea is a whole new-age movement thing right now, being aware of “spiritual contracts”. Being aware of how we spend energy and who else is using “our” energy. This kind of thinking seems like another trap because it enforces the idea that energy is a finite thing – it is “our” energy vs. someone else’s. But energy is everywhere… how is it “ours” exactly? This to me seems like a fundamental thing that “humans” need to overcome to progress forward. We may borrow it for a time, but if you don’t have a limited point of view on this issue, look how much more you have!

    Yes there is a huge aspect of people falling back on what they’re comfortable with. It can be very frustrating. As Winston Churchill says “Americans will always do the right thing once every other option has been exhausted.” It’s an entire country (planet?) of people with inertia issues… in another way I think this is just how we learn. We have to start with what we know, and then modify that template to look like the new thing. If it still doesn’t fit, we often have to go back to the familiar thing and try again. I’ve done this a bit in my previous discussion. For me there are templates and variations on the template; it’s like arguing that a zebra is a horse. Sure it looks like a horse but it’s also a zebra. The zebra and the horse share a “horsey” template.

    There is the possibility that we really are that powerful and are just being kept in containment… in a similar way to how we issue young drivers with provisional licenses. I agree it seems like a dangerous train of thought. I think it’s somewhat similar to winning a lottery. Chances are good that someone will spend all the money in 3 days, and be in a worse position than when they started. Chances are not good that someone will manage those winnings wisely, for their own future use. Chances are even less good that they will use it only to help others… but some do (this is my own understanding…). This template relates to our spiritual progression (although a very simplified version of it).

    • First off I have to admit I feel like we are again having one of those moments of underlying conflicting understandings based on our different cultural contexts… I’m with you on most of it but I don’t know very much about the situation in new age circles (even if I’m a member of some and lurk a lot online, it’s mostly “way out there” for me). I have to say as well, that maybe my “template” would even upset you if you could see it. My world view is pretty much a carbon copy of the christian duality, with added reincarnation and a more “practical” view of what is good-bad. I look at the results rather than any “nature” or “property” of a person to decide if it is moral or not. I do not believe this is some mystical quality, rather it’s seen by what can be done, and someone’s personal “right or wrong” does not have a value, only the benefit of the masses count.

      Now to get to the topic I wanted to spell out:

      How do you decide if “energy” belongs to an individual, a group or a non-human entity? This is something that I had problems to understand before, like… how can you own something? If you own an estate, it’s because of a document filed with your government. But why does this give you any rights to it? Because of the law. Then it’s a matter who enforces the law, and that’s “law enforcement” authorities. Simple put the group with the most guns decide the laws of what “property” is. Then what is useful to them? They would have to base their laws in the emotional connection people have with the things they want to own. If the guns of the government protect estate owners, they will in turn support the government. The estate owners care about certain things, maybe family, maybe their right to do certain things on their land for emotional reasons, like building a gazebo, hunting, swimming. The laws are then formed by this.

      It’s all arbitrary, and based on something intangible, emotions and ideological beliefs. These things gain support by convincing people to believe in them, and this is done by many words and many cultural things.

      Only when a “critical mass” is reached will something be accepted and protected by “law” and this is what decides if it belongs to you or someone else.

      The universe is the same, and if you upset the laws made by different entities, human or spiritual, they will use their means of “law enforcement” against you. So even if you say “limitless view” you still need to take this into account.

      That’s my view of this.

      • Fair enough – and I think we’re pretty much in alignment on this. The whole “enforcement” thing is really fascinating because then you get into the whole set of templates that deal with intangible things, like you said. What is worth enforcing and what isn’t, how much / how little, have / have not, “quality”, etc. But then point to a piece of air that’s yours and you would probably have a hard time doing that (please do not take “my” air – I need it…). 😀

  20. oh and by way of introduction I was raised anglican, was baha’i, now consider myself agnostic / unaffiliated, and appreciate buddhism and the traditions of the “first people” here in north america. I see these things as tools of understanding rather than ways to define myself. Potentially they are also “control” in one way another… so I tend to want to keep them at “arm’s length.”

    My understanding of reiki is probably what’s guiding my understanding of energy, if that helps. I see reiki as part of the “healing” branch of chi gong. We’re taught that you should try to see energy like an endless river flowing rather than a finite thing. As long as you see it as having a beginning and an end, you can always run out of it, whereas if you see it as all connected, and never-ending, you won’t “run out”. As an introvert I don’t feel I have a good grasp of the “social” aspects of energy, but it’s a good lesson to learn as a human being…

    • I wasn’t really raised into any religion, but where I live religion means lutheranism, so there is not really any choice to make. Most kids probably get some religious teaching but for me it was probably my own interest and the fact I actually believed in it that made the difference. A mainstream christian can be just like a secular in his actions. I took these things for real and not just “tradition” like most do. But I really feel like, now in retrospective, I reached the peak of my understanding of christianity during the easter (specifically an experience I had on the palm sunday) when I was 6 years old.

      After this I felt like reaching a halt and there was a lack of information. The prehistory in the old testament is fine, but it only fills in some of the older things, it doesn’t show the way forward.

      This is where I found qi gong to have some of the technical details I felt was missing in modern christianity, and specifically I found Falun Gong as taught by Li Hongzhi to explain a lot of what I was missing. He also points out that there is no conflict between his qi gong school and christianity, so this was not a problem for me to accept. Falun Gong draws a firm line between universal qi and qi that belongs to beings. Universal qi is free but stealing qi from other living things will create bad karma and cause huge suffering and illness for those who do it.

      This is my understanding of the matter, for further study of this I will have to refer to the original books. This is the way Li Hongzhi has required when discussing his statements, so I’ll just follow that.

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